NGC 459

The search for NGC 459, close to M74.
Some overhere in Sweden has try to see this object in 12” but no succsess.
Its a rather easy reference stars and its 3 fainter stars and galaxy is close them at one side.
Herschel saw it long time ago in a 18,7” and 66% reflection.
I has try catch in the 30” Starstructure under fall but it has been terrible weather.
Now I’m LaPalma and darkness has been SQM 21.5 and no clouds, no moister, not real cold ( 14C at night ) and seeing was better than before I has been here. It was a record last week at Roque with 0.2 arcsec.
But overall sky ( clearness ) was maybe not as good.
One at rental place said the same ( he had been there before ) so sky was good but maybe max 7 on a 10 scale.
I had rented a 25” but it went a misstake so we got a 20”.
It was not possible see this 459 galaxy but guy with the 25” saw it ( but said Very faint )
So now I know I will see it in Sweden with the 30” if a decent night come.

Has anyone seen it, keep me posted on how etc.
I like the fainter ones hard to catch.
I spended 3 hours on it.
I never thought it was that nasty to find !

Sirus B was easy here even i lower power.
Planets was great but I has no intrest in them.
In Sweden planets in the 30” is a joke.

DeepSkyLog only reports 4 logs of which one negative. One of the three positive observations is from Steve Gottlieb. See

https://www.deepskylog.org/index.php...h+Observations

I detected it in a 12.5" in 2020, sky magnitude 21.45 (SQM), 166x with TeleVue Apollo 11 (altitude of site 8350'), seeing excellent:
faint, at the scope limit, very small, round, resembling a faint planetary nebula, no detail, averted vision shows object is larger than a star.

Don, that was very well done but you are also a Very experianced observer with ton of DS experiance.
I started 2015 from absolut zero as you know but I has work with some great guys but I has to learn more but now it was another guy with +40 years in the sleeve so LaPalma sky and 20” was not enough for this one. The German guy that rented the 25” had 20 years experiance and he said faint, very faint.
Darkness was decent or good ( could be darker ) but seeing was great, but transparency might was one issue.

You caught me at a good time, Hakann. Last evening, right after the Moon set and before a long night of observing, I took a look for it in my 16-inch f/4.5 dob on a EQ tracking platform. NGC 459 was 43 degrees up and the SQM-L was reading about 21.2 mpsas. At 300x, the galaxy was at first only intermittently seen as a very small, diffuse glow. But after a few minutes, I could see it better and eventually I came away seeing a roughly 30"-wide circular disk that was of very even surface brightness except for a slight brightening at its center. I estimated that if it was higher up and my sky was running at its normal darkness (21.2 is below), I could've seen it in a 14-inch. I have a 10-inch and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be visible to me in that. So, Don's sighting with a 12.5-inch sounds like its about the minimum aperture. I won't lie, though -- experience does help and I too have more experience than you, Hakann.

Scott H.

That was amazing with a ES 16” Dob at 21.2 darkness.
Yes experiance counts for shore but I’m not new now and I was at 21.5 darkness in very good seeing Bortle 1 and had 20” but it was not enough.
If just me, well I should say lack of experiance but one that was there eith me behind the EP for 3 hours study had 40 years behind EP and the guy used a 25” beside us had 20 years behind EP.
Contex was LaPalma sky now did need + 20”.
I has observed faint stuff with great observers in Sweden, Germany, Australia, USA ( ex with Jimi ) and I dont say I’m in that leage but learned some.
I can see faint stuff as Holmberg 9, separate out atleast 2 galaxys in Hickson 50 group and IC1296 and 1 part in Andromeda parashute in the 30” ( Sweden sky Bortle 3-4 )
Note when I was at Hickson 50 sky was 21.5 at zenith and had the best eye from Sweden with me ( Timo K ) but I been on Hickson 50 many times but not seen anything.

If people see this galaxy in 12-14-16” its simple sky quality and experiance talking !
Timo K was one here failed in his 12” and he is on a better place than the 30” are at.
Strange LaPalma did never meet up ?

I has high to roof so I’ll just seek a answer.
What happend at LaPalma vs this galaxy ?
20” is 3x light from a 12”, darkness was good, seeing was great so was it just lack of experiance, bad eyes, less time try see it, wrong work method, bad optics or was it the PII or the Ethos EP blowing it away etc ?
My own context is, key is BIG optics.
Now that I know 12” will work I has told Timo K he will see it in a decent night in Sweden.

I would guess that transparency has a lot to do with it.
There is no guarantee that a dark sky is transparent at any altitude, but higher is usually better for lower extinction.
In my experience, small differences in clarity of the air can make a big difference in seeing something very faint.
And, with something small, good seeing helps, as this concentrates the light where it should go.

Don, yes from what all issues we can get into and from all good things I came to from what cause issue for me here in Sweden, I fight light in summer, harsch winter and snow for many month, coldness, slippery icy floor, moister, low land and rest as common as bad seeing, wind - I had it all just great at LaPalma but as its ’always’ something transparency was that bad as object that could be seen in maybe 10” needed 25” !
Shore I saw many new and old objects but my goal of trip was to see this galaxy.
Talk about bad luck :- )

My drawing of NGC459 with the 30 inch

Attachment 5010

Mel Bartels

Impressing.
Bigger than I thought.
Now I’ll just wait on a nice night for my 30” here in Sweden.
-I will se it..

Back in 1995, with an 18" at 332x, "Fairly small with even brightness" was all that I noted back then.

As told.
Last December I was observing at LaPalma in a 20” and as one here never saw the galaxy NGC 459 ( 12” Dob ) I was going after it at LaPalma.
Last fall in Sweden was terrible and nothing to observe in the 30 plus the object was to low in spring at home in Sweden so I was going after in last week at south of Sweden.
I used Nikon HW 14 mm and it popped up direct ( 225X )
Sky at LaPalma at 900 meter was around 21.5 and sky at Sweden now was moister and 21.3 and sea level.
I say both sky was bad. But let me say I’m kinky on sky as we like it jet black. right.
LaPalma when I has been there has never really be great ( 6 times or new moons ) but I seen clear sky and 21.9 but seeing is often a issue ( ? )
Most of the time I observe on west side ( turbulance ? )
But at sealevel and 21.3 but 30” it was easy ( but faint )
Good thing compare to Sweden its observation often all nights ( if not calima ) as here its Very few night to use the telescope as snow, winter for 6 month, no astro in summet then moister, wind and sky is not dark plus we are at most 250 meter up.
Anyway the aperture ( 12 year old coatings ) and telescope has been ’out’ all days since new but the Sweden sky blowed LaPalma away.
Hershel saw this galaxy in a 14” in that days coatings converted.