Hi here's my observation of Ngc 584 and Ngc 586 from 11/6/2009; Ngc 584 magnitude:10.36 ; size: 3.8'x2.5' ; Ngc 586 magnitude: 14.8 ; size:1.6'x0.8' ; Ngc 584 being the brighter of the pair shows a bright halo and a bright core, Ngc 586 is a very faint elongated smudge. I used a 10mm Ethos at 158x with my 14.5 Starstructure Dob f/4.3ngc 584.jpg