Eyepieces - Less glass is more

[Marko]

It would be nice to hear Alvin and others mention their favorites on minimal glass high-end eyepieces in the 5-10mm range for 200+ mag galaxy/PN observing. He had liked Zeiss in the last couple years I believe. Besides Nagler type 6 selection, I have only one 5mm Tak LE in this category (and a drawer of cheap to mid-end plossels, rarely used). I would prefer quality contrast and optics to AFOV for this eyepiece.

This would most often be used in a 18" dob f/3.7 with paracorr for around 1950mm focal length starmaster. Would take Paracorr out for some of the less-glass cases. Lately besides remote galaxies I am looking at a lot more planetaries as well. I want whatever eyepiece it is to be quality and known reputation to be great deep sky usage.
Thanks in advance,
Marko

[FaintFuzzies]

Marko,

My current collection for low-glass high throughout eyepieces are:

4, 6 and 10mm ZAO-II's
5, 7, 9, 12.5, and 18mm BGO's (Baader Genuine Orthos)
17mm TV Plossl (just got this for 25 bucks and haven't played with it yet)
25mm Tak ortho 0.965"

On my wish list is an 8mm AP SPL to replace both my BGO 7 and 9mm as I wanted something that would slot right between my 6 and 10mm ZAO-II's.

My wide field set includes:
6 and 10mm Delos
13mm Ethos
waiting for the 5 and 8mm Delos

Then the barlow is the TMB 1.8x ED

[Marko]

You took so long to reply I was wondering when you might get back to the computer. ... I hope you are feeling well ;-)
(Thanks for the quick reply) From above and your web page (which I should have checked first) I suspect 6mm and perhaps later 10mm ZAO-II would be a good fit for my current needs and I'll just have to keep my eyes open to find them.

[Jimi Lowrey]

Mark,

All the ZAO II are excellent I use them in the 48" all the time they are my workhorses . I have the set of ZAO II 16MM,10MM, 6MM and 4MM. but no eyepiece has the light transmission of the TMB supermono, I have the 5MM, 7MM, 8MM, 9MM and10MM, in my scope you can easily see the gain in light grasp of the TMB supermonos. If I were you I would try to get a low count Ortho or SuperMono in a 2mm exit pupil and 1.5 mm exit pupil that is what shows the Faint fuzzies the best from my experience.

Good luck they are hard to come by. APM Telescopes Germany is making a run of high in orthos now so check Markus out you might still be able to get on the list. Maybe Dragan will jump in here he is on the list.

[Dragan]

Marko,

I'm another advocate for less glass. My current set of EP's, other than some Ethos & Naglers, also contain the UO volcano top orthos. (I prefer the VT's over the flat tops for comfort. Alvin did a comparison some years back and discovered that the flat tops may be a bit better in contrast and detail but I still prefer the volcano tops.) But I digress....

The University Optics Orthos are probably the best value for a quality minimalist eyepiece. If you were so inclined to buy them all, you can have a complete set of new UO orthos for less than $700 bucks! They're even cheaper on the used market.

But as good a value as the UO's are, I'd have to go for the TMB Supermonos. Undoubtedly, one of the best EP's available. Jimi is correct, now is your chance to get some new TMB's! Markus Ludes of APM Telescopes in Germany is doing a limited run of 4, 5 & 6 mm SM's. They're exactly the same as the past TMB Supermonos. Currently he is only offering 25 pieces of each focal length so you may have to act fast. I've put myself on the list for one of each. I'd really like to see him come out with something in the 8-12.5mm range but he needs commitments first. An 8mm and a 10mm (1.6 & 2.0 exit pupils respectively) would be ideal in my scope and I'd jump on them in a heartbeat!

Send Markus a PM if you're so interested. He's a member here on DSF. His username is apmtelescopes

[FaintFuzzies]

And I totally regret selling my 5 TMB SMC's (4, 5, 7, 9 and 12mm) when I got what I needed in the ZAO-II's. My only issue of the TMBs is the correction in fast scopes, only the middle 50% is sharp...but that middle 50% is what I cared about anyways.

Back in 2007 GSSP at Lassen Peak parking lot, I was observing with Gottlieb, Wagner, and about 20 others (the rest was at Bumpess Hell) I observed 22 members of Abell 2065 with my 4 and 5mm TMB SMC.

PS: I actually just got on DSF when I saw your post...perfect timing... lol

[Marko]

Thanks Jimi and Alvin. The comment about nothing is as good for light grasp as TMB SuperMono seems curious following the ZAO II comment. Perhaps you feel the downside of the supermono is AFOV of 30d vs 43d or if not, what other aspect of the ZAO II makes it more desirable than the SuperMonos? The ZAO II is 4 element in 2 group and TMB is 3 element in one group so that seems to be the better light grasp mechanism (this after 10 minutes of quick research just now). Lets limit the evaluation to assuming the central area with radius of 1/3 to 1/2 of the total radius for the field is the area of interest for the same reasons Alvin commented on, I too agree that Im generally concerned with very center of view.

Per all the above great pieces of advice I feel it is time to order so I have contacted Markus Ludes in a private message since those may be available if I 'act now'. This has been something I have needed for a long long time so now is the time for action.

Thanks for your advice but I am still curious as to what I have asked for other viewpoints if they are not covered above you you gents already.

This is about squeezing every photon I can get and not so much about 'best for the money' (I should have stated that earlier).

[Jim Chandler]

...what other aspect of the ZAO II makes it more desirable than the SuperMonos?...

I could spend paragraphs comparing them, but it's best summed up as the SuperMonos have better transmittance, but the ZAO II are sharper when compared in the 48".

Other viewpoints? You came to the right place <g>. The differences among the various eyepieces that are easily seen in the 48" simply cannot be seen in my 25" or 30". I have a full set of UO volcano tops which rarely get used because, after extensive A/B comparisons with my Nagler T6 set, I can see no discernible difference in contrast, light grasp, or, for lack of a specific word, detectability of objects in my scopes. With all else equal, I prefer the wider apparent field.

Both Jimi and I do see the difference in his scope, and neither he nor I see the difference in my scopes. We have discussed this phenomenon ad infinitum, and a couple of years ago we asked James Mulherin for a professional opinion. His theory was that it's a matter of small percentage differences that yield a large enough absolute difference in the larger aperture to cross the threshold of detectabiity, while remaining unnoticeable in the smaller scopes.

[Marko]

Thanks Jim for a key piece of info that I was unaware of and seems reasonable. Having done shootout between my Nagler T6 5mm and Tak LE 5mm with 18" scope in very dark skies I and a fellow observer as well had a tough time feeling the Tak was a better view (to any noticeable level). That shootout was a while back and my observing has progressed somewhat since then. I'm still thinking I will pick up two high-mag SuperMonos (if I can get them) as the much smaller FOV will also help me better judge sizes for small objects.

Thanks for all the info and leads Gents.

[FaintFuzzies]

Other viewpoints? You came to the right place <g>. The differences among the various eyepieces that are easily seen in the 48" simply cannot be seen in my 25" or 30". I have a full set of UO volcano tops which rarely get used because, after extensive A/B comparisons with my Nagler T6 set, I can see no discernible difference in contrast, light grasp, or, for lack of a specific word, detectability of objects in my scopes. With all else equal, I prefer the wider apparent field.

Both Jimi and I do see the difference in his scope, and neither he nor I see the difference in my scopes. We have discussed this phenomenon ad infinitum, and a couple of years ago we asked James Mulherin for a professional opinion. His theory was that it's a matter of small percentage differences that yield a large enough absolute difference in the larger aperture to cross the threshold of detectabiity, while remaining unnoticeable in the smaller scopes.

On the other hand, at GSSP 2009, five observers, including Jimi and I saw the difference between the ZAO-II, UO HD and Ethos (all 6mm) in my 22". The UO HD is between the ZAO-II and Ethos, but a little closer to the ZAO-II in light transmission and the ability to perceive additional detail. Jimi and I agreed that the difference between the ZAO-II and the Ethos is obvious. Lastly, one of the five was a beginner and even he saw the difference.

One of the object we were looking at was the triple galaxy system, NGC 6745 in Lyra.